Like "Arm Wrestling with My Father," Sarah Vowell's "Shooting Dad" depicts a struggle for communication between child and parent. Compare and contrast the two essays.
Both "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad" depict a struggle between child and parent for communication; however, while Manning and his father struggle to communicate through emotional ways, Vowell and her father struggle to communicate because they do not hold the same beliefs. Manning's father only converses through physical ways, such as encouraging Manning in sports, arm wrestling, and competing against him. His father tries to show his love for his son through these physical ways, because he does not know how to show it in emotional ways. In contrast, Vowell's father does not struggle to show his love through emotional or physical ways. Instead, Vowell and her father struggle because they believe they have nothing in common. Vowell does not approve of shooting guns, which is what her father does for a living. Both Vowell and Manning's fathers end up communicating with their child at the end of each story. Vowell connected with her father when she learned to appreciate the cannon and realized she was actually very similar to her dad. Manning connected to his father when his father hugged his son in a non-competitive way and showed that he had learned to express his love in an emotional way, rather than just through physical competitiveness. Both Vowell and Manning also learn to appreciate their fathers and look at them in a new way after learning to communicate. They learn to love their fathers even though they struggled throughout their life to understand their father’s beliefs or intentions.
Both “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” describe the gradual changes observed in the relationships between the children, in this case Manning and Vowell, and the father. In both stories, there is something blocking the children from having a full connection with their fathers. For Manning, it is always losing at arm wrestling, and for Vowell, it was the difference in opinion of guns. Both children struggle to overcome these obstructions and finally are able to accept their fathers’ differences from themselves. Manning would always lose arm wrestling matches with his father, but ultimately as he grew up, he was able to triumph over his dad. Vowell also rises above her and her father’s differences and attempts to understand her father’s views, and in doing so, she discovers how much she has in common with her father. While both “Arm Wrestling” and “Shooting Dad” are similar tales of the relationship between father and child, there are differences as well. Manning’s relationship with his dad lacked communication. He calls his relationship with his father a “physical” one; they did not communicate on an emotional level. The only deeper contact they made with each other was through arm wrestling or lacrosse games, purely physical. However, Manning learned that through this physicality, his father showed emotion and how much he cared for Manning. Manning learns this at the end when he finally defeats his father in arm wrestling. In Vowell’s relationship, there is much communication between her and her father; however through their differing opinions, it was difficult for them to fully understand each other. Both Manning and Vowell ultimately discover that their fathers care for them, and it becomes evident as they grow up and learn about their fathers.
Brad Manning’s "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and Sarah Vowell’s "Shooting Dad" are similar in that they both demonstrate the struggle between a father and his child to be able to effectively understand and talk to each other. In both stories, the child displays that the father’s way of communication is not right for everyone, but the father continues his way because that that is all he knows. Manning’s father has always been a strong, big man who enjoys wrestling and thinks that all problems can be solved physically, but Manning uses emotion and intellect to solve the problem. Vowell’s father has an obsession for guns and hunting, while Vowell enjoys music and writing. Her father simply wants to build a relationship with her by trying to peak her interest in guns, but she does not like guns and never will. Manning and Vowell both figure out that they have to learn to like something about their fathers’ hobbies in order to effectively communicate. However, these stories differ in the way that each child solves their communication problem. Manning and his father are in a constant competition of arm wrestling. When Manning and his father stop arm wrestling for a few years, their problem still exists. Not trying to beat his father or find a way to communicate, they have a final arm wrestling match when Manning is older and he finally wins for the first time. This causes his father to change his heart and show emotions for his son, which is what Manning wanted all along. However, Vowell purposely tries to enjoy part of her father’s hobby by accompanying him in shooting off his cannon that meant so much to him. She is trying to understand his love for guns and end their ongoing dispute. Vowell ends up learning that despite their differences in likes and dislikes, their personalities are just alike.
Both “Arm Wresting with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” illustrate a child’s communication barrier with their father. Manning’s “Arm Wrestling with My Father” shows the absence of blazon affection. Instead, the two show their love for each other through physical means such as arm wrestling. Manning appreciates that his father tries to show him that he cares by attending his games and spending time doing physical things, but Manning hints in his essay that he wanted his father to communicate with him more lovingly through his childhood. “Shooting Dad” is the story of a daughter and father that have completely opposite views of the world, especially when it comes to guns. Their barrier is that they do not have anything in common, which makes them not want to be around each other, hence their personal domains. Her father tried to spark a connection when he took her hunting, but that only separated them more when she did not enjoy shooting the gun and even made her hatred for guns grow. Each of the protagonists eventually break their barriers of communication. When Manning grows to be a college student, he triumphs over his father when they arm wrestle, something that has never been done before. This helps the father to realize that their roles are switching and one day the father will need his son to be dependent on. Manning’s father gives him a loving hug when he leaves after the visit, which shows that he is trying to show his love in a more direct way towards his son. Vowell eventually learns that her father and her are the exact same, with opposite views. Therefore, she decides to break her communication problem with him by trying to show her dad that she wants to be a part of his life. She accomplishes this by going with him to shoot off his cannon that he put years of work into and takes much pride in. She even enjoys the thrill of the cannon, which helps her father and her to connect even more. In the end, both stories have a communication problem between a child and father, but they find that the differences only show their affection for each other and help to build a stronger relationship.
"Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad" represent a struggle of communication between the child and the parent. However, "Arm Wrestling with My Father" interprets the emotion of love between parent and child while "Shooting Dad" indicates the difference of opinions and beliefs between parent and child. Yet, both storylines are based off of the child/parent relationship. "Arm Wrestling with My Father" is coming from the child's point of view and how he describes each occassion of arm wrestling with his father. He realizes by the end of the story, that even though his father may not tell he loves him, he has his sentimental ways of showing the love he has for his son. Such as, at the end of the story when he hugs the child, and this time, the hug is soft and warming instead of rugged and tough. "Shooting Dad" establishes the child's point of view also but, Vowell goes deeper into detail about the background of the child's father. She states how her father has the passion for guns, and the beliefs of her father. She also reveals the time, dedication, and passion he put into his business and the cannon. In this story, we all think that the child and parent have nothing in common but she expresses, "Oh. My. God. My dad and I are the same person." Then she goes on to say that she liked the cannon when she hated the guns before any of the ironic conversation her and her father had during the shooting of the cannon. Brad Manning and Sarah Vowell both use the struggle in communcation of the parent/child relationship in each of their stories. The child doesnt understand what and why their fathers do what they do, but by the end of the story, they realize that their fathers did those things for a reason; to teach a lesson to their child that you dont have to tell somebody you love them, you can express it in others ways, and that everybody has their own opinion, so don't let that stop you from what you believe and what you take pride in.
The struggle for communication is evident in both Manning’s “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and Vowell’s “Shooting Dad.” However, the struggle between child and father are different in each story. To start, I feel that Manning’s relationship with his father is closer than Vowell’s with hers. Manning mentions that his dad came to his lacrosse meets and they spent time together wrestling and what not. Whereas Vowell makes it clear that she and her father had different opinions and he let her make her own choices. The communication struggle comes in when Manning says he and his dad had a physical relationship and didn’t communicate in speech or writing. Vowell shows that she and her dad both communicated openly. Vowels states, “the fact that I was allowed to voice my opinions did not mean that my father would silence his own” (147). The difference between the two is that Manning didn’t communicate with speech or writing and Vowell and her dad just argued. I feel like because Manning is a boy, he and his dad had a stronger relationship because his dad coached him wrestled with him. On the other hand, because Vowell is a girl, she may not have had such a strong bond with her dad, so he just let her do her own thing.
In both “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” the authors have abnormal relationships with their fathers. They are angry at their fathers at one point or another; Manning after he loses to his father during his teens, and Vowell throughout most of her life. Unlike Manning, Vowell feels more resentment towards her father because of their differing opinions. Also, Manning’s relationship is based on competition between him and his father while Vowell’s is based on conflict. At the end of the stories, both individuals eventually grow to appreciate and love their fathers, though their methods differ. Manning is able to beat his father in arm wrestling, and in doing so comes to appreciate him more, while Vowell tries to understand her father’s opinions and find a common ground with him. I am able to understand Manning more than Vowell, mainly because my relationship with my own father is based more on competition than conflict.
In both short stories, it is evident that both children depict a struggle with their dad but in the end, they both mature and realize what’s been missing, compromising and interpreting that miscommunication in a different way. Manning has a communication problem because his dad communicates in physical ways instead of emotional. While, Vowell struggles to communicate because her and her father share no common interests or beliefs. When both children grow up and come back they realize to compromise and try to accept their fathers different ways. By doing this they both learn to appreciate their father for what they are and put differences aside. In Manning’s story, he has the arm wrestle that symbolizes there relationship. When he was young he always lost and tried so hard to beat his father at first. The father never came to his orchestra concert but was always ready to give him sports tip. Manning being the understanding kid he was always positively took the feedback even if is wrong. This shows that their relationship was more physical then emotional and that Manning tried to see the love in his father. Manning’s relationships evolves when he realizes it was never about winning and when his dad gave him a hug for the first time showing that he does love him.
Vowell on the other hand, does not have a problem in expressing herself physically or emotionally but rather, they have no common interests. She strongly disapproves of her father’s love for hunting and guns. She is repulsed and scared when she first shot a gun but her sister loved it. She is then known as the “lonely twin” but when she comes back and tries to make a bond through the cannon she succeeds in loving him the way her father has always loved her. She realizes that they had many similarities such as, they both love their hobby passionately and found peace when doing it. She connects with her father when she gives him and his hobbies another chance and she realizes how to appreciate them.
Both stories depict the longing for peaceful communication between both child and parent. However, Manning's issue seems to be within the acceptance and need for his father's emotional support more than his physical support. His words being physical, as described by manning, impedes their ability to effectively communicate and bcare, he does show his love through different ways, just not the way his son wanted. (His son never expressed a need for change, or at least never mentioned it in his story, so there may be more fault on the son if he really wanted it to change he could have been more avid about presenting the change. That may have been the way his father had raised him, passing it along through each generation). Vowell on the other e supportive his wants and desires. It's not as though his father does nothand, is more expressive in her opposition of her father's views, opinions, and wants than Manning is. She makes it apparent in her beginning statement describing the political rivalry and view on guns that separate the household. The need to function is more prevalent than the submission to eachother's views, so the story depicts the attempt to understand rather than to alter the views.
While both "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad" depict a struggle for communication between child and parent, the type of communication they are struggling over differ. In Vowell's essay, it's more of opposing views which cause the struggle of communication, while in Manning's essay it has a more deeper struggle to understand the motives behind each others actions. Vowell doesn't approve of her father's political views, or his hobby of shooting. As she grows older, she no longer sees the hours her father spends working on a gun, as a gun, but rather as her father spending hours working on his ancestral line of "moonshiners, Confederate soldiers, murderers, even Democrats" (147). On the other hand, Manning's essay shows how his father and him have different definitions of communications. While his father focuses on the athletic encouragement, Manning wishes his father would support him in all of his activities. In my opinion, what Manning does not understand is, his father can only advise him in places where he is somewhat of an expert on. How can he advise him in his orchestra band, when he doesn't know the first thing about it? I see the arm wrestling matches as a pass-along of the family strength. As Manning says that "it looked strong, to be sure, though not so strong as it had in past years" (138) we can foreshadow the outcome of the match, might not be what it always is. Manning wins not only the match, but also wins the emotional connection with his father as they part at the airport.
Manning's "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and Vowell's "Shooting Dad" both depict a struggle of communication between the father and the child. While Manning conveys the conflict as more of a competition and Vowell introduces it as an ongoing argument, they both establish in the beginning that these differences are the bases of their relationships. Manning and Vowell suggest that the relationship they each have with their father is sort of their ‘thing’: something that is customary to them, although conflicting. Both Manning and Vowell are presented with objects that they have developed a sort of fear of and feel they cannot compete with. Manning faces “the arm” and Vowell discusses her bad experience with the gun. However, the competition between Manning and his father is an unspoken, though physical, conflict, while the differences between Vowell and her father stand as a known and implemented conflict. Vowell comes to a compromise with the relationship with her father as she opens up and submits to her father’s ways; she finds similarities amongst their differences, such as their being hard of hearing -- her from Aerosmith and him from gunsmith. Conversely, Manning and his father sort of meet in the middle and recognize each other’s feelings as they have both “learned something.” The conclusion of Manning’s essay is left open-ended with possibility of his father either changing his ways or strengthening his arm and staying the same, whereas the last sentence of Vowell’s essay is well-concluded as the love for her father and firearms is established.
In “Arm Wrestling with my Father” and “Shooting Dad” the children have trouble communicating effectively their love and affection with their fathers. Manning’s father expresses his feelings through physical activity and sports. He is unable to understand that supporting his son requires him to reach out to all of Manning’s activities including the orchestra. Lowell’s father has trouble relating to her interests in art and music, and Lowell herself has difficulty understanding her father’s obsession with guns. The competition between Manning and his father differs greatly from the arguments between Lowell and her dad. Manning’s dad can only communicate his feelings through physical competition; he cannot express any emotion past what he knows and what interests him. On the other hand, Lowell’s father can only argue against her opinions and interests. Her dad allows her the opportunity to express herself, yet he continues to bicker against Lowell’s beliefs. In both stories, a sort of understanding is reached. In regards to Manning and his father, the arm wrestling game represents their relationship. The father is the strong, dependent winner and the son is the dedicated attempter. When the son grows older, the roles switch when he wins the game. Manning realizes that he has changed his point of view and wants his father to know his love outside of physical activity. His father depicts a similar transformation when he gives him a true hug when he leaves. Lowell’s father finds it difficult to connect with his daughter because of the extreme contrast of interest. Though when she matures, she decides to try to appreciate her father more and visit his gun shooting. She finds that even though their interests are total opposites, their personalities in relation to those interests are the same; they both are obsessive loners. When Lowell sees how much of herself is her father, she begins to connect with him and realize how hard his death would be on her.
Vowell and Manning both have difficulty communicating their feelings with their fathers. Vowell’s difficulty originates from her personality and practices that conflict with those of her father’s, while Manning has difficulty communicating with his father because his father only expresses his love for Manning through physical acts and competition. Because Vowell and her father disagree on so many things, they cannot communicate effectively because neither can empathize and relate with the other. Eventually, Vowell realizes that, although they have opposing beliefs and different practices, their deepest natures are the same. Manning’s relationship with his father is one that is purely physical. Although his father showed Manning love through physical acts such as wrestling, Manning wanted his father to show his love more directly through gentler mediums, such as through speech and writing. Manning eventually realizes that his father truly loves him and that is all that is important. Both “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” show the evolving relationships between the child and parent, and how, as Vowell and Manning mature, their resentment transforms into acceptance as they realize that their fathers love them in their own unique ways.
In both "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad", they each portray the struggle for child and father communication; however, Manning and his father have difficulty to communicate through emotional ways, while Vowell and her father struggle to communicate because of their lack of similar interests. The relationship between Manning and his father is based on competition rather than emotion. One of the only times where Manning and his father spend quality time together is during an arm wrestling match or lacrosse games, both known as competitive games. According to Manning, arm wrestling was like having a conversation. The love Manning’s father has for him is evident but shown in a different way. Manning’s father shows his affection by helping Manning in sports, and building character as he tries to help Manning gain confidence. They had similar interests and communicated by physical actions rather than emotional actions. On the other hand, Vowell and her father had difficulty communicating because they could not seem to find a common ground. They were always on opposite ends of an argument, especially when it came to guns. Vowell despised guns, but her father absolutely loved them. The different views of guns created a hiatus in their relationship because Vowell would never understand guns like her father does. Although both Manning and Vowell have difficulty understanding their fathers, they soon grow to respect them. Once Manning finally defeats his father at arm wrestling, he realizes that he would in fact be happier if “the arm that had protected and provided” for him all his life had won. He grew up thinking that his father was a tough man, and now that the roles have switched, he preferred his father to be stronger. In the end, when Manning’s father finally gives him a soft hug, he realizes that his father is changing and showing his love for Manning in a more emotional way than physical. Vowell also strived to find similar interests and someday comprehends that her and her father were in fact the same. They were both passionate but in different views. Vowell, finding common ground in her father’s cannon, enjoys the thrill of the cannon and takes much pride in him. In their indolent years, both Manning and Vowell struggle to fully communicate with their father; however, as they grow older and mature, they begin to respect and accept their father, building a stronger relationship in the end.
Manning and Vowell’s stories both present their fathers as ones who are physically-driven and all around manly-men. However, Manning’s father is only able to relate to him on that physical basis through sports, arm wrestling, and their bear hugs, while Vowell is quite different. Vowell, being a girl (no stereotypical profiling intended), doesn’t have that innate physical connection with her father like Manning, and to top it all off, Vowell is a left-wing author-type while her father is a hardcore right-wing gun enthusiast, but they still manage to have a good relationship (which is probably only possible since they are father and daughter). Both stories have the climax scene where the author finally obtains a different view of their father due to something that they can -finally- relate to. Manning’s moment of realization is when he inevitably beats his dad in their ritualistic arm wrestling match, which is followed by the love-filled hug at the airport. Vowell comes to terms with her father when they are out shooting her dad’s cannon and she realizes that they are both dorks, but with different mediums.
When I was reading these stories, it seemed like they were pretty much the same, at least to me. Not that they weren’t good, but to me it seemed like they were formed from the same mold; there is an obvious difference between the author and his/her husky father and the two come to terms some way or another, the real question or difference is: “how?”
When speaking of any type of relationship, whether it is between two lovers or like the ones shown in Manning’s and Vowell’s essays, communication is key. Without verbally stating emotions and feelings to a significant other, a misinterpreted view of their antics may be problematic for the relationship. The short descriptive essay “Arm Wrestling With My Father” gives the reader insight to the way Manning was reared and the effect that the lack of communication between him and his father had later in life. The two had a relationship “determined by athleticism and strength,” which is understandable when taking into consideration the male tendency to show emotions rather than to talk about them. For Manning and his father, this lack of communication was fueled by the habitual competition they held against each other. From an onlooker’s point of view, the competition may seem to be a mere show of strength, but for Manning and his father, this was a way that they could show love for one another without sacrificing a manly façade. While this physical show of communication may not have been entirely positive for either father or son, the act of arm wrestling became a common link between them. Manning’s father only spoke with him about matters that concerned physicality, such as being coached in sports like lacrosse; however, he yearned for a better way him and his father could interact. Over time as Manning grew stronger and his father weaker, he was then able to defeat the life-long ambition of forcing his father’s arm to the ground. The fact that he shows remorse when he “want[ed] to let him go,” reveals that the barrier of their communication has been broken by the simple factor of time. On the other hand, Vowell’s relationship with her father was neither physical or emotional, but rather a mesh of opposing political viewpoints as well as her aversion to guns while her father obsessed over them. The two “started bickering in earnest when [she] was fourteen,” a reasonable age for arguments because of a teenager’s gravitation towards picking fights due to the hormones raging through their developing bodies. Vowell chooses this age in her life to emphasize the differences between her and her father. The reader can then percieve how a life being ignored by her father, not because he intended to due to his busy workload, affected how Vowell viewed her father. She makes her negative viewpoint of the gunsmith clear by using adjectives such as “horrifying,” and “weird.” Because of her opinion of guns, her and her father did not communicate as much as “the loneliest twin in history” and her father did. Unlike Manning and his father, Vowell never really interacted with her dad until later in life when she then takes the reins to try communicating with him. Ironically, Vowell foreshadows her father’s “shooting” by decribing his latest achievement as the “most elaborate tool of death yet.” By the end of “Shooting Dad”, the reader then realizes the meaning of the title, and both daughter and father come together for one last final shooting of her dad. The physical release of Vowell’s father as well as the figurative release of tension for Manning and his father indicates similar yet different ways positive communication can be hindered. Whether it be a lack of showing emotion or simply because of opposing interests, the relationship both authors had between their fathers are similar because they did not interact with the fatherly figurehead in their lives as much as they had wanted. Manning shows how physicality is not always an effective means of communicating because him and his father did not reveal their true feelings of love for each other until later in life. Although Vowell also shows appreciation for her father towards the end of his life, the communication between her and her father was virtually nonexisistent due to differing opinions on almost everything while she was growing up.
Brad Manning’s “Arm Wrestling with Dad”, provides information on how his father was never a person to show affection or try and nurture his son. Manning describes how his father never supported his musical talents. When it came to sports, his father would only go to his games and critique his every move. Although Manning tells about all the negative events about his father, he eventually shows his true feelings by feeling guilty about beating his father in their favorite pastime, arm wrestling. When Manning is getting ready to go back to college, he puts his hand out to his father and his father offers his son a hug instead. Manning shows the reader that he loves and respects his father by becoming upset while on the airplane. Sarah Vowell’s “Shooting Dad” demonstrates how a daughter and her father and she have different views on everything including politics and interests. Vowell and her father argue but her father usually leaves her alone and takes her twin sister hunting and shooting because she enjoys it. As she and her father age, she discovers the importance of her and her father to be able to agree to disagree. She eventually understands her father and learns to enjoy fire arms because it is who her father is. Brad Manning and Sara Vowell both portray a distance from their fathers while growing up. Both also learn after growing up to accept their father. Vowell and her father argued while Manning just listened to his father. Vowell was more opinionated and Manning kept his thoughts to himself. Manning did more things with his father while Vowell stayed away from her father. In the end, both realize the meaning of family. You cannot chose your family.
Jacob- I completely agree with your statements claiming how the mold of each story is basically the same. It was not as though they were not informative, they were just a little vapid in the message they were trying to portray. The storylines were slow and not particularly exciting. It would help if they were less soporific, engaging the reader. Kajal- Though it is apparent that the communication between Manning and his father is physical as opposed to the traditional method of showing affection, and Manning being understanding of it; his understanding of it is probably not positive, for in the story he seems to be whining in a way about all of the things his father would do and show up for, as opposed to the events and things that Manning preferred him to do. He seems disappointed, but too reserved and submissive as a child to say anything to him. in their message.
Natasha: You stated that "what Manning does not understand is, his father can only advise him in places where he is somewhat of an expert on." and that he couldn't help with orchestra because he did not know anything about it. I do not agree with this statement because Manning reveals that his father would coach him in lacrosse, which he knew nothing about. Manning stated that "his movements were all wrong and sad to watch." Although he did not know about orchestra, he also did not know about lacrosse.
Ana: I agree completely with your statement that "Without verbally stating emotions and feelings to a significant other, a misinterpreted view of their antics may be problematic for the relationship." I also like your insight that the reason the relationship between father and child is not good is because they do not interact with their father as much as they would like.
Jacob: You asserted that these two stories were "pretty much the same." I agree with your statement. They both followed the same story line. For me, it is the "how" that makes me like "Arm Wresting with My Father" more than "Shooting With Dad."
Jacob - I like that way that you phrased these two stories as the same “mold” and I agree with that. The core of Manning’s and Vowell’s description is their relationships with their fathers and how they communicated with each other. There were different types of communication, like Manning’s physical relationship and Vowell’s conflicting opinions, but ultimately this communication changes and father and daughter/son become more understanding of each other. Each story tells how their relationships change. Natasha – You said that Manning’s father could only coach Manning in things that he is an expert on. However, Manning says in his description that his father did not know much about lacrosse either. His father advised Manning in lacrosse anyways because he wanted to somehow let his feelings of affection reach his son.
Grace, I never thought about the connections between child/father as being blocked by something. I think that is a really smart way of thinking. Manning’s communication was blocked by losing at arm wrestling, but for some reason, it has to be more than just losing. Maybe, it had to do with Manning’s pride, or maybe it was that his father just didn’t realize that they had a lack of communication. Same thing with Vowell, it was more than just their differing opinion of guns. I feel like they had differing opinions on a lot of subjects, especially politics, and especially guns.
Kajal, I agree that both children realized the problem with the communication after they had grown up. It’s neat that something like maturity can open your eyes to see or understand something that you might not have earlier. It’s strange that when the kids grow up, they are the first to recognize the miscommunication. But, even though the parents are already grown up, they don’t recognize the miscommunication that they have/had with their child.
Jacob, I like how you pointed out that because Vowell is a girl, she and her father might not have had such a great connection, because that’s so true. I think guys typically have a stronger relationship with their fathers because they can relate easier and the guy normally learns a lot from his dad more than from his mom. I also like how you described the girl’s personality versus her father’s. the “left-wing author-type” versus the “hardcore right-wing gun enthusiast.” I also agree about what you meant when you said that they probably only have some sort of relationship because they are father and daughter, because in reality, if they were not related, they probably would not get along at all.
Jacob: I liked how you used the gender difference to show the connection barrier between the two kids and their father. I also agree with Dana's response to your comment about how she liked "Arm Wrestling with My Father" more that "Shooting with Dad." I agree that the "how" made me enjoy the story and made a more sincere impact on the story.
Ana: You, also, used the differentiation of sexes to portray how the communication was barred. I also liked how you compared the ending physically versus figuratively. I also liked how you used their different types of interactions to compare the two stories.
Lexi: I really liked how you compared the two kids personalities and actions with their fathers to help analyze their different relationships. It was something I had not noticed, but now knowing this, it helps to show major differences in the stories.
Caroline- I like how you mention that "Manning hints in his essay that he wanted his father to communicate with him more lovingly through his childhood." He knows that his father loves him and does the best he can, yet still feels a mild resentment for his father not being able to express himself in regards to other interests.
Dylan- I like how you contrasted how the interests of each father are portrayed. Manning's father does not have much of a background to explain exactly why he can only have a physical relationship. However, Vowell's father has an extensive background on his love for guns and his cultural connection with them.
Austin- Though I'm sure each child can be frustrated with their respective fathers, I do not think that they are angry with them. Manning knows his dad has trouble communicating, but is aware that he will do as much as he can with their common interests. Lowell knows that her dad and her do not have similar hobbies and interests, but he still allows here to speak her mind and express herself.
Catherine- I thought when you said "Manning and Vowell suggest that the relationship they each have with their father is sort of their ‘thing’: something that is customary to them, although conflicting" was very insightful. Though the children's relationships with their dads are not conventional, they work for them. Sometimes stress is involved, but as they matured they learned to see different perspectives, and the love their dads have for each of them.
Natasha- You bring up a good point when you say that while Vowell originally sees her father’s gun obsession as both moronic and pointless, she eventually sees it for what it truly is, her father’s attempts to reconnect with his ancestors. After she discovers the true meaning of his actions, she begins to try and join in on the activities, and that is what leads to their cannon outing. However, I slightly disagree with you when you say that Manning does not understand that his father cannot teach him in areas that he does not fully comprehend. I believe that Manning does see that his father cannot help him with things like orchestra and that is why he accepts the way that his father shows him affection through physical movements and sports coaching. Avery- In response to your comment on my post, I meant that Manning was angry at his father after he lost the arm wrestling contest when he was younger. Manning says that “Too bitter to smile, I would not answer or look at him, but I would just roll over on my back and frown at the ceiling. I never thought it was funny at all.” I did not mean that Manning was angry at his father for the way that he showed his love, but that he was simply frustrated that he could not best his father in the arm wrestling contest. Michael- While I agree that Vowell did have trouble communicating with her father because of the sheer number of disagreements that they had, I am not so sure that Manning had trouble communicating with his father. He and his father had an understood system of communicating through physical methods such as hugging and arm wrestling. It is through these gestures that they can communicate their feelings, and so both are able to successfully communicate their feelings to the other person. I do believe that Manning sometimes wishes his father would just tell him his true feelings, but I think that he has accepted his father’s methods of communication and is content with those methods.
Avery, I like how you focus on how each author explains how they connect with his or her father only after maturing. Even though Vowell and her father had completely different interests, you accurately state that they are both “obsessive loners” in the activities that they confide in. On the other hand, you explain that Manning and his father both communicate their “feelings through physical competition” because he cannot “express any emotion past what he knows and what interests him.” I agree completely with both statements you made about each author because it shows that both are different to their corresponding father, but share common interests or emotions as they mature.
Tatum, you state that in each relationship between father and child, one had to make a change in order to effectively communicate with the other. I agree when you explain how Manning’s father had “to change his heart and show emotion for his son” in order to understand how to communicate with his son. Instead of having her father change her love for guns, Vowell was the one who made the change in order to appreciate her father’s hobby. You essentially conclude that by participating in each other’s lives, communication can be made possible.
Taylor, I really appreciate how you included that it may have been Manning’s fault for not voicing his opinion verbally when his father did not communicate with him in the ways that he wanted to. Although “this may have been the way his father had raised him,” he still had the opportunity to tell his father exactly what bothered him during his childhood. You also state that Vowell’s essay “depicts the attempt to understand rather than to alter the views,” which is something that I did not think about when first reading the two essays.
Taylor: I realized after reading your post that his son never expressed a need for change. It may really be more of the sons fault for not mentioning the need for change. Since he felt he needed the change, he only expressed it to himself, never to his father.
Jacob: I never thought about Manning and his father being of the same gender versus Vowell and her father. It definitely plays a role in how they interpret what the other says.
Jacob- I agreed with your post. I like how you said they are a mold of each other and pretty much the same story. I also agreed when you brought in gender to each story because it is true that Manning would find it easier to connect on a physical level, while Vowell being a daughter would find it harder to appreciate guns and hinting. You also said they probably ended up getting along because she is his daughter which is true because in my opinion Vowell wouldn't try to get along with her father if they did not have that connection.
Dylan- I don't agree with you where you state that the father tried to teach them a lesson but i agree with the rest of your closing statement and i really like how you concluded your post. I agree that they both grew up and realized that love can be expressed in different ways, it doesn't have to be emotional and that it shouldn't affect what you believe in or what you take pride in. For Manning, he realized that his dad expressed his love physically, with an arm wrestle or tip on how to play better and he realized that love when he finally got his emotional hug. I also like how you found irony in Vowell's relationship.
Jacob: I like that you noted the difference in gender between the two relationships. I didn't think about this factor before and it does make a lot of sense. I think that father-daughter relationships tend to be more emotional and open, which is probably why Vowell felt it best to take the initiative in becoming a better daughter, while Manning kept his feelings inside until his father made the first move and hugged him.
Taylor: I liked how you said that Vowell "is more expressive in her opposition of her father's views, opinions, and wants than Manning is." I think that this factor of addressing the issues upfront contributed to the positive change in Vowell's relationship with her father and the sense of conclusion at the end, whereas the conclusion of Manning's essay was unsure of what was to come and their conflict remained unspoken, since it was only assumed to be communicated through a hug.
Wow! The debating spirit is alive and well! I admire that you--4th period sages--take very seriously the commentary of your peers and challenge and validate each other's responses! Discussion forums Thursday and Friday should prove to be some of the best we've encountered this year! Thanks for your candid and confident responses -- your level of trust in 4th period reflects a great deal about your maturity as AP Lang students. LWeaver
Grace - I like how you state that both children had to overcome "obstructions" and how they finally at the end accept their fathers' differences. Tatum - I like how you tell us that Manning uses emotion and intellect to solve the problem, while his father uses physical attributes and how Vowell likes music and writing while her father likes guns and politics. It's also important how you state that they learn to like something about their fathers' hobby in order to effectively communicate like they want to. Austin - I don't agree on how you said that Vowell is angry at her father through their differing opinions. Yes, they may of had the total opposite opinions, but Vowell didn't hold a grudge against her dad for it. That's in my opinion. I don't see hatred towards her father for him liking the "horrifying" guns. She learned to live with the differences, and later matured when she found out "oh. my. god. My dad and I are the same person." Ana - Excellent point on how you tell us that no matter what relationship, communication is key. I agree totally, because without commmunication, your relationship can't strengthen, grow, etc,. I also like how you say that the readers come to an understanding of the title "Shooting Dad" by the end of the story when they find out that her father wants to be shot out of a cannon into the valley.
Catherine: I like how you came to the conclusion that Manning and Vowell are in a relationship where "they have developed a sort of fear and feel they cannot compete." I agree with this statement and believe that this aspect is a major reason for the struggle between father and child. I also like that you referred to Manning and his father as both learning something. I feel that when the two are learning together, a more intimate relationship will result.
Dylan: I like how you contrasted the two stories by finding that in Manning's story,emotion of love between parent and child is the issue while "Shooting Dad" presents a conflict of beliefs and opinions. I never really thought of the differences in that context, but now clearly see how the center of the struggle of communication are based on these aspects. I also like how you pointed out that in both of the stories, the child just simply does not understand his/her father.
Tatum, although I like your comment about how both Vowell and Manning has to learn to like similar hobbies as their fathers to effectively communicate, I don't quite agree that Manning's father acts his way simply because that's all he knows. Manning's father knew how to communicate with love and affection through physical actions. Even though Manning wanted more emotional attention, the father's love for Manning has always been evident.
Dylan, I really liked your last comment about how Vowell and Manning didn't understand what or why their fathers did what they did until much older. By doing so, they have taught their child that love is expressed in different ways.
Austin -> I’m going to have to disagree with you when you say that Manning is angry with his father. I believe Avery said this too (maybe we can finally agree on something!) but I think their relationship is based on that competition, like you said, but not anger. Although Manning may be perturbed that his father is constantly beating him, I think he sees it as not only a challenge, but as one of the few links of communication that he has with his father, therefore he is grateful for it. On the other hand, I will agree with you when you say that Vowell feels more resentment towards her father and is maybe even angry.
Michael -> I like how you say that the stories show the “evolving relationships” and that their resentment “transforms into acceptance.” I really like the connotation behind those words because it makes it sound like it took a long time for that acceptance to happen, which it did.
Kajal -> I like how you point out that Vowell, “does not have a problem in expressing herself physically or emotionally,” it’s just that they don’t have anything in common. I think this is one of the main deviants of the two stories and what makes each unique, because in Manning’s, the two at least had a few things in common: the arm wrestling, lacrosse, and whatever other manly activities the two could have indulged in together. Who knows, maybe they went rock climbing. Or spear fishing. Or catfish noodling… To me, that is the epitome of manliness, so that would be pretty intense, but I digress… In Vowell’s, the closest her and her father ever came was in shooting that old cannon. However, it seems like there is a lot missing from these stories and it would be interesting to gain the perspective from the fathers and see how they felt.
Jacob- I also like the way that you compared the genders. As Catherine said, it really does make a difference to me now as well. I also like the fact that you made the connection that the father and daughter were both dorks. I agree that these pieces are quite similar. While reading, all I could focus on was how similar they were.
Austin- I like that you put that Manning and his father have more common ground than Vowell and her father. I noticed that it took Manning time to see his father act differently towards him to realize the positive characteristics of his father, while Vowell stepped up and made an attempt to mend the broken relationship.
Tatum, I like and agree with your statement that “the father’s way of communication is not right for everyone, but the father continues his way because that is all he knows”. However, I disagree with your claim that Manning’s father believes that all problems can be solved physically; rather, I think that Manning’s father is just unable or unwilling to express himself emotionally. I thought that your summary of the differences between Manning’s relationship with his father and Vowell’s was very accurate Rachel. I came to the same conclusion that Manning had a closer relationship with his father but didn’t directly communicate, and that Vowell communicated openly but had too many conflicting opinions. However, I disagree that Manning’s and Vowell’s gender had any role in their relationships with their fathers.
Original Post: Arm Wrestling and Shooting Dad both illustrate a struggle between a child and their dad. In Arm Wrestling the son is frustrated because his dad always is superior to him and pointing out how the son could do better. In the end the son realizes his father acts as such because this is the only way he knows to express love and craves this behavior. Shooting Dad has an opposite conflict, of the girl wanting to differ from her father because she believes everything he does is incorrect. She vehemently sticks to her "guns" and counters everything he believes in. Eventually the girl learns to accept her father's ways as differing from hers, yet still correct, and form an appreciation for his specialties in life. Peer Commentary: Jacob, to answer your question of "how", I believe as both authors matured and became more worldly they abandoned their child-like stubborness and realized although they may disagree or express themselves differently than another person it doesn't mean that they shouldnt accept the person or try to learn from them! Dylan, I liked how you distinguished between the two stories as one was based on opinions and beliefs and one on love. I think this is a very insightful and good way to distinguish between the two.
After our class discussion about description essays, I've come to the conclusion that to write a strong description essay one must not just include flowery adjectives but the essay must have a purpose that is clearly stated. A key factor in writing a descriptive essay is to make sure you have a thesis that states the author's dominant impression clearly. You have to be careful not to add in excessive details, the author needs to make sure it is all relevant and necessary details.
From these essays and class discussions, I have come to an understanding that descriptions are not just bare details about some object; descriptions are a piece of writing that uses details in order to portray a purpose. Descriptions do not just blatantly identify purpose of the story; the reader is able to deduce it. Just like in "Shooting Dad," Vowell does not begin her story by saying how different she and her dad are, but she says it through the details of her house, their rooms, and their opinions. From these details, we are able to come to the conclusion that the author was describing her relationship with her father.
Grace, Your post is very insightful. Take heed fellow muses. Use Grace's insight as you consider how to approach description. Stylistically, Vowell write in order us how their environments, their hobbies, and their beliefs are who they are and how those differences seem, at first glace, what separates them. Perhaps your siblings is one place to look--nature versus nuture anyone?
Description, unlike narration, does not try to deliver a moral or axiom to the reader, but rather describes or portrays an object or event that is important to the author. However, physical descriptions alone do not make a piece worth reading. Successful authors must also include how that object or event makes them feel, as well as how it has impacted their lives and the lives of those around them. Therefore, emotional descriptions are just as important to descriptive writings as physical descriptions. For example, Manning uses the arm wrestling anecdote to describe not only how his relationship with his father makes him feel, but also how it has impacted and shaped his life. His feelings towards his relationship with his father are the main focus in his writing, and that is what allows his story to be so successful.
Through the pieces of literature I have read, and the discusssions that we have had in class, I have come to an understanding about what a description piece actually represents. Rather than just a load of details and descriptions, a description writing proves a point or purpose which is illustrated through a person, object, or event. Like in Manning's story "Arm Wrestling with My Father," the story did not just come out and say, "My dad and I had problems communicating, but when I got older, I matured and understood his feelings." Rather, Manning takes the reader on a journey through his personal life and experiences illustrating the relationship he had with his father.
Descriptive writing is based on vivid details that present an object, event, or person in a specific light. The author uses descriptions, which are often heavily based on one specific sense, to convey to the audience a specific impression about an object, event, or person. In descriptive writing, the author does not directly say the impression that he or she is trying to convey, but instead allows the reader to, through the details of the essay, reach the same conclusion. This self-discovery creates a much stronger image in the reader’s mind than if the purpose was directly stated because the readers arrived at the conclusion themselves, forming a unique connection between the thing being described and the impression being conveyed.
Descriptive writing helps the reader produce an image of the scene being told easier than narration. This is what I have learned through the past week breaking down of description. And also like Austin said, it doesn't put forth the moral or axiom, and what Michael said, lets the reader find out what the dominant impression is at the conclusion of the story. I also learned that I can not get description and narration mixed up. Description is describing an event and using detail to life the spirits of the story, and narration is telling the story and incorporate morals and life lessons within the story.
Through our class discussion of descriptive essays, along with the examples we read, i have quite simply come to the conclusion that a descriptive essay is much, much more than multiple, useless adjectives. I have come to appreciate description as a round about way of getting to the truth rather than a bunch of unnecessary fluff blocking the reader from understanding the purpose. By utilizing a descriptive technique authors allow the reader to vividly experience the same occurrence as they did, but make their own judgments as to what the author was attempting to convey within the description.
From our class discussions and the short stories we have read this week, i have come to the conclusion that descriptive writing is not just vivid details but descriptive writing must also have a strong purpose or truth, and a type of conflict. By using descriptive writing authors show the reader the experience they were going through when writing their essay. Descriptive writing introduces the conflict in the beginning of the story and then builds on it, throughout the novel with descriptive, vivid details. Those components together successfully reach the purpose and truth behind the story. For example, Vowell states in the beginning of the essay that she doesn't get along with her dad and then uses the rest of the essay to demonstrate how her father's relationship evolved from complete disagreement to a mutual understanding and compromise.
Through reading the short stories and discussing with the class, I have found that the descriptive mode of writing not only stimulates the reader's senses and imagination, but the descriptions show the story for the reader. Rather than just telling the reader what is happening and the emotions behind the story, the reader can decipher for themselves their idea of what it means. The thorough descriptions in the stories bring out individual emotions and opinions so that the reader can interpret for themselves the true meaning of the passage.
What I have learned about the description mode of writing is that, differing from narratives, the change is not apparent or clearly spoken of. In the description stories that we have read, I have seen that you can only notice this change by paying attention to the details and the emotions that are created through descriptive words.
Though each story we read had a different purpose, the style in which they were written provided the descriptive accuracy needed to convey their message effectively to the reader. The language was not over flowery, but consisted of just enough visual and emotional description needed to have the reader experience their exact emotions or visions.
By reading the short stories and engaging in our class discussions, I've learned that the authors do not just bluntly tell the reader what is happening. Instead, the authors conveys their message through accurate and vivid description. They basically creates an image for us from their details of the event taking place, making us determine the reason why they would include such information.
From reading a few of the posts, it seems like the general consensus is that descriptive language does not rely heavily on flowery language. I, however, respectfully disagree. From reading the stories in the Bedford Reader and other books in general, I believe that flowery adjectives and language is the basis of descriptive writing, but how the author chooses to implement them is key. Like salt, with a dash here and there, those flowery adjectives can make a story delectable, but if you dump too much in there it’s just plain nasty and can even lead to heart failure. Nevertheless, the author’s style seems to be the criteria on how those descriptions are used, and they usually describe one key aspect of a bigger picture. Say, for instance, Vowell wants to describe her father; she will focus on one key aspect or anecdote about him and modify her language accordingly so that it makes it seem as though you knew him personally. But without flowery language that is both visually stimulating and emotional, there wouldn’t be any “Descriptive Writings” because there wouldn’t be any descriptions.
From reading the pieces of literature and having class discussions I have learned to understand how these essays are written. I have learned that the authors include emotional descriptions that allows the readers to connect to them. They are not overly descriptive but just enough to give them an edge. Each description that is provided for the reader allows the author and reader to connect on an emotional level.
From our readings to our discussion in class about each of the essay, I have discovered that the description mode is not just about detail. If it was just about vivid diction, it would be a poem. The descriptive mode depicts how something thoroughly described can have an emotional impact on a person. The description mode can take an object, person, or emotion and connect it with the reader. It can represent a symbol for emotion or nostalgia. The description mode gives meaning to something. Like in Manning's story, his father's arm is the represenation of his role as his dad over the years.
Through our class discussions and our readings, I have learned what "Descriptive Writing" is. It is not just meaningless adjective after adjective. Rather, it is a story with deeper meaning conveyed through these adjectives. It allows the reader to feel emotion though the story and understand how you feel about a certain object, person, event, or place.
Both "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad" depict a struggle between child and parent for communication; however, while Manning and his father struggle to communicate through emotional ways, Vowell and her father struggle to communicate because they do not hold the same beliefs. Manning's father only converses through physical ways, such as encouraging Manning in sports, arm wrestling, and competing against him. His father tries to show his love for his son through these physical ways, because he does not know how to show it in emotional ways. In contrast, Vowell's father does not struggle to show his love through emotional or physical ways. Instead, Vowell and her father struggle because they believe they have nothing in common. Vowell does not approve of shooting guns, which is what her father does for a living. Both Vowell and Manning's fathers end up communicating with their child at the end of each story. Vowell connected with her father when she learned to appreciate the cannon and realized she was actually very similar to her dad. Manning connected to his father when his father hugged his son in a non-competitive way and showed that he had learned to express his love in an emotional way, rather than just through physical competitiveness. Both Vowell and Manning also learn to appreciate their fathers and look at them in a new way after learning to communicate. They learn to love their fathers even though they struggled throughout their life to understand their father’s beliefs or intentions.
ReplyDeleteBoth “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” describe the gradual changes observed in the relationships between the children, in this case Manning and Vowell, and the father. In both stories, there is something blocking the children from having a full connection with their fathers. For Manning, it is always losing at arm wrestling, and for Vowell, it was the difference in opinion of guns. Both children struggle to overcome these obstructions and finally are able to accept their fathers’ differences from themselves. Manning would always lose arm wrestling matches with his father, but ultimately as he grew up, he was able to triumph over his dad. Vowell also rises above her and her father’s differences and attempts to understand her father’s views, and in doing so, she discovers how much she has in common with her father. While both “Arm Wrestling” and “Shooting Dad” are similar tales of the relationship between father and child, there are differences as well. Manning’s relationship with his dad lacked communication. He calls his relationship with his father a “physical” one; they did not communicate on an emotional level. The only deeper contact they made with each other was through arm wrestling or lacrosse games, purely physical. However, Manning learned that through this physicality, his father showed emotion and how much he cared for Manning. Manning learns this at the end when he finally defeats his father in arm wrestling. In Vowell’s relationship, there is much communication between her and her father; however through their differing opinions, it was difficult for them to fully understand each other. Both Manning and Vowell ultimately discover that their fathers care for them, and it becomes evident as they grow up and learn about their fathers.
ReplyDeleteBrad Manning’s "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and Sarah Vowell’s "Shooting Dad" are similar in that they both demonstrate the struggle between a father and his child to be able to effectively understand and talk to each other. In both stories, the child displays that the father’s way of communication is not right for everyone, but the father continues his way because that that is all he knows. Manning’s father has always been a strong, big man who enjoys wrestling and thinks that all problems can be solved physically, but Manning uses emotion and intellect to solve the problem. Vowell’s father has an obsession for guns and hunting, while Vowell enjoys music and writing. Her father simply wants to build a relationship with her by trying to peak her interest in guns, but she does not like guns and never will. Manning and Vowell both figure out that they have to learn to like something about their fathers’ hobbies in order to effectively communicate. However, these stories differ in the way that each child solves their communication problem. Manning and his father are in a constant competition of arm wrestling. When Manning and his father stop arm wrestling for a few years, their problem still exists. Not trying to beat his father or find a way to communicate, they have a final arm wrestling match when Manning is older and he finally wins for the first time. This causes his father to change his heart and show emotions for his son, which is what Manning wanted all along. However, Vowell purposely tries to enjoy part of her father’s hobby by accompanying him in shooting off his cannon that meant so much to him. She is trying to understand his love for guns and end their ongoing dispute. Vowell ends up learning that despite their differences in likes and dislikes, their personalities are just alike.
ReplyDeleteBoth “Arm Wresting with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” illustrate a child’s communication barrier with their father. Manning’s “Arm Wrestling with My Father” shows the absence of blazon affection. Instead, the two show their love for each other through physical means such as arm wrestling. Manning appreciates that his father tries to show him that he cares by attending his games and spending time doing physical things, but Manning hints in his essay that he wanted his father to communicate with him more lovingly through his childhood. “Shooting Dad” is the story of a daughter and father that have completely opposite views of the world, especially when it comes to guns. Their barrier is that they do not have anything in common, which makes them not want to be around each other, hence their personal domains. Her father tried to spark a connection when he took her hunting, but that only separated them more when she did not enjoy shooting the gun and even made her hatred for guns grow. Each of the protagonists eventually break their barriers of communication. When Manning grows to be a college student, he triumphs over his father when they arm wrestle, something that has never been done before. This helps the father to realize that their roles are switching and one day the father will need his son to be dependent on. Manning’s father gives him a loving hug when he leaves after the visit, which shows that he is trying to show his love in a more direct way towards his son. Vowell eventually learns that her father and her are the exact same, with opposite views. Therefore, she decides to break her communication problem with him by trying to show her dad that she wants to be a part of his life. She accomplishes this by going with him to shoot off his cannon that he put years of work into and takes much pride in. She even enjoys the thrill of the cannon, which helps her father and her to connect even more. In the end, both stories have a communication problem between a child and father, but they find that the differences only show their affection for each other and help to build a stronger relationship.
ReplyDelete"Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad" represent a struggle of communication between the child and the parent. However, "Arm Wrestling with My Father" interprets the emotion of love between parent and child while "Shooting Dad" indicates the difference of opinions and beliefs between parent and child. Yet, both storylines are based off of the child/parent relationship. "Arm Wrestling with My Father" is coming from the child's point of view and how he describes each occassion of arm wrestling with his father. He realizes by the end of the story, that even though his father may not tell he loves him, he has his sentimental ways of showing the love he has for his son. Such as, at the end of the story when he hugs the child, and this time, the hug is soft and warming instead of rugged and tough. "Shooting Dad" establishes the child's point of view also but, Vowell goes deeper into detail about the background of the child's father. She states how her father has the passion for guns, and the beliefs of her father. She also reveals the time, dedication, and passion he put into his business and the cannon. In this story, we all think that the child and parent have nothing in common but she expresses, "Oh. My. God. My dad and I are the same person." Then she goes on to say that she liked the cannon when she hated the guns before any of the ironic conversation her and her father had during the shooting of the cannon. Brad Manning and Sarah Vowell both use the struggle in communcation of the parent/child relationship in each of their stories. The child doesnt understand what and why their fathers do what they do, but by the end of the story, they realize that their fathers did those things for a reason; to teach a lesson to their child that you dont have to tell somebody you love them, you can express it in others ways, and that everybody has their own opinion, so don't let that stop you from what you believe and what you take pride in.
ReplyDeleteThe struggle for communication is evident in both Manning’s “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and Vowell’s “Shooting Dad.” However, the struggle between child and father are different in each story. To start, I feel that Manning’s relationship with his father is closer than Vowell’s with hers. Manning mentions that his dad came to his lacrosse meets and they spent time together wrestling and what not. Whereas Vowell makes it clear that she and her father had different opinions and he let her make her own choices. The communication struggle comes in when Manning says he and his dad had a physical relationship and didn’t communicate in speech or writing. Vowell shows that she and her dad both communicated openly. Vowels states, “the fact that I was allowed to voice my opinions did not mean that my father would silence his own” (147). The difference between the two is that Manning didn’t communicate with speech or writing and Vowell and her dad just argued. I feel like because Manning is a boy, he and his dad had a stronger relationship because his dad coached him wrestled with him. On the other hand, because Vowell is a girl, she may not have had such a strong bond with her dad, so he just let her do her own thing.
ReplyDeleteIn both “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” the authors have abnormal relationships with their fathers. They are angry at their fathers at one point or another; Manning after he loses to his father during his teens, and Vowell throughout most of her life. Unlike Manning, Vowell feels more resentment towards her father because of their differing opinions. Also, Manning’s relationship is based on competition between him and his father while Vowell’s is based on conflict. At the end of the stories, both individuals eventually grow to appreciate and love their fathers, though their methods differ. Manning is able to beat his father in arm wrestling, and in doing so comes to appreciate him more, while Vowell tries to understand her father’s opinions and find a common ground with him. I am able to understand Manning more than Vowell, mainly because my relationship with my own father is based more on competition than conflict.
ReplyDeleteIn both short stories, it is evident that both children depict a struggle with their dad but in the end, they both mature and realize what’s been missing, compromising and interpreting that miscommunication in a different way. Manning has a communication problem because his dad communicates in physical ways instead of emotional. While, Vowell struggles to communicate because her and her father share no common interests or beliefs. When both children grow up and come back they realize to compromise and try to accept their fathers different ways. By doing this they both learn to appreciate their father for what they are and put differences aside. In Manning’s story, he has the arm wrestle that symbolizes there relationship. When he was young he always lost and tried so hard to beat his father at first. The father never came to his orchestra concert but was always ready to give him sports tip. Manning being the understanding kid he was always positively took the feedback even if is wrong. This shows that their relationship was more physical then emotional and that Manning tried to see the love in his father. Manning’s relationships evolves when he realizes it was never about winning and when his dad gave him a hug for the first time showing that he does love him.
ReplyDeleteVowell on the other hand, does not have a problem in expressing herself physically or emotionally but rather, they have no common interests. She strongly disapproves of her father’s love for hunting and guns. She is repulsed and scared when she first shot a gun but her sister loved it. She is then known as the “lonely twin” but when she comes back and tries to make a bond through the cannon she succeeds in loving him the way her father has always loved her. She realizes that they had many similarities such as, they both love their hobby passionately and found peace when doing it. She connects with her father when she gives him and his hobbies another chance and she realizes how to appreciate them.
Both stories depict the longing for peaceful communication between both child and parent. However, Manning's issue seems to be within the acceptance and need for his father's emotional support more than his physical support. His words being physical, as described by manning, impedes their ability to effectively communicate and bcare, he does show his love through different ways, just not the way his son wanted. (His son never expressed a need for change, or at least never mentioned it in his story, so there may be more fault on the son if he really wanted it to change he could have been more avid about presenting the change. That may have been the way his father had raised him, passing it along through each generation). Vowell on the other e supportive his wants and desires. It's not as though his father does nothand, is more expressive in her opposition of her father's views, opinions, and wants than Manning is. She makes it apparent in her beginning statement describing the political rivalry and view on guns that separate the household. The need to function is more prevalent than the submission to eachother's views, so the story depicts the attempt to understand rather than to alter the views.
ReplyDeleteTaylor
While both "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad" depict a struggle for communication between child and parent, the type of communication they are struggling over differ. In Vowell's essay, it's more of opposing views which cause the struggle of communication, while in Manning's essay it has a more deeper struggle to understand the motives behind each others actions. Vowell doesn't approve of her father's political views, or his hobby of shooting. As she grows older, she no longer sees the hours her father spends working on a gun, as a gun, but rather as her father spending hours working on his ancestral line of "moonshiners, Confederate soldiers, murderers, even Democrats" (147). On the other hand, Manning's essay shows how his father and him have different definitions of communications. While his father focuses on the athletic encouragement, Manning wishes his father would support him in all of his activities. In my opinion, what Manning does not understand is, his father can only advise him in places where he is somewhat of an expert on. How can he advise him in his orchestra band, when he doesn't know the first thing about it? I see the arm wrestling matches as a pass-along of the family strength. As Manning says that "it looked strong, to be sure, though not so strong as it had in past years" (138) we can foreshadow the outcome of the match, might not be what it always is. Manning wins not only the match, but also wins the emotional connection with his father as they part at the airport.
ReplyDeleteManning's "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and Vowell's "Shooting Dad" both depict a struggle of communication between the father and the child. While Manning conveys the conflict as more of a competition and Vowell introduces it as an ongoing argument, they both establish in the beginning that these differences are the bases of their relationships. Manning and Vowell suggest that the relationship they each have with their father is sort of their ‘thing’: something that is customary to them, although conflicting. Both Manning and Vowell are presented with objects that they have developed a sort of fear of and feel they cannot compete with. Manning faces “the arm” and Vowell discusses her bad experience with the gun. However, the competition between Manning and his father is an unspoken, though physical, conflict, while the differences between Vowell and her father stand as a known and implemented conflict. Vowell comes to a compromise with the relationship with her father as she opens up and submits to her father’s ways; she finds similarities amongst their differences, such as their being hard of hearing -- her from Aerosmith and him from gunsmith. Conversely, Manning and his father sort of meet in the middle and recognize each other’s feelings as they have both “learned something.” The conclusion of Manning’s essay is left open-ended with possibility of his father either changing his ways or strengthening his arm and staying the same, whereas the last sentence of Vowell’s essay is well-concluded as the love for her father and firearms is established.
ReplyDeleteIn “Arm Wrestling with my Father” and “Shooting Dad” the children have trouble communicating effectively their love and affection with their fathers. Manning’s father expresses his feelings through physical activity and sports. He is unable to understand that supporting his son requires him to reach out to all of Manning’s activities including the orchestra. Lowell’s father has trouble relating to her interests in art and music, and Lowell herself has difficulty understanding her father’s obsession with guns. The competition between Manning and his father differs greatly from the arguments between Lowell and her dad. Manning’s dad can only communicate his feelings through physical competition; he cannot express any emotion past what he knows and what interests him. On the other hand, Lowell’s father can only argue against her opinions and interests. Her dad allows her the opportunity to express herself, yet he continues to bicker against Lowell’s beliefs. In both stories, a sort of understanding is reached. In regards to Manning and his father, the arm wrestling game represents their relationship. The father is the strong, dependent winner and the son is the dedicated attempter. When the son grows older, the roles switch when he wins the game. Manning realizes that he has changed his point of view and wants his father to know his love outside of physical activity. His father depicts a similar transformation when he gives him a true hug when he leaves. Lowell’s father finds it difficult to connect with his daughter because of the extreme contrast of interest. Though when she matures, she decides to try to appreciate her father more and visit his gun shooting. She finds that even though their interests are total opposites, their personalities in relation to those interests are the same; they both are obsessive loners. When Lowell sees how much of herself is her father, she begins to connect with him and realize how hard his death would be on her.
ReplyDeleteVowell and Manning both have difficulty communicating their feelings with their fathers. Vowell’s difficulty originates from her personality and practices that conflict with those of her father’s, while Manning has difficulty communicating with his father because his father only expresses his love for Manning through physical acts and competition. Because Vowell and her father disagree on so many things, they cannot communicate effectively because neither can empathize and relate with the other. Eventually, Vowell realizes that, although they have opposing beliefs and different practices, their deepest natures are the same. Manning’s relationship with his father is one that is purely physical. Although his father showed Manning love through physical acts such as wrestling, Manning wanted his father to show his love more directly through gentler mediums, such as through speech and writing. Manning eventually realizes that his father truly loves him and that is all that is important. Both “Arm Wrestling with My Father” and “Shooting Dad” show the evolving relationships between the child and parent, and how, as Vowell and Manning mature, their resentment transforms into acceptance as they realize that their fathers love them in their own unique ways.
ReplyDeleteIn both "Arm Wrestling with My Father" and "Shooting Dad", they each portray the struggle for child and father communication; however, Manning and his father have difficulty to communicate through emotional ways, while Vowell and her father struggle to communicate because of their lack of similar interests. The relationship between Manning and his father is based on competition rather than emotion. One of the only times where Manning and his father spend quality time together is during an arm wrestling match or lacrosse games, both known as competitive games. According to Manning, arm wrestling was like having a conversation. The love Manning’s father has for him is evident but shown in a different way. Manning’s father shows his affection by helping Manning in sports, and building character as he tries to help Manning gain confidence. They had similar interests and communicated by physical actions rather than emotional actions. On the other hand, Vowell and her father had difficulty communicating because they could not seem to find a common ground. They were always on opposite ends of an argument, especially when it came to guns. Vowell despised guns, but her father absolutely loved them. The different views of guns created a hiatus in their relationship because Vowell would never understand guns like her father does. Although both Manning and Vowell have difficulty understanding their fathers, they soon grow to respect them. Once Manning finally defeats his father at arm wrestling, he realizes that he would in fact be happier if “the arm that had protected and provided” for him all his life had won. He grew up thinking that his father was a tough man, and now that the roles have switched, he preferred his father to be stronger. In the end, when Manning’s father finally gives him a soft hug, he realizes that his father is changing and showing his love for Manning in a more emotional way than physical. Vowell also strived to find similar interests and someday comprehends that her and her father were in fact the same. They were both passionate but in different views. Vowell, finding common ground in her father’s cannon, enjoys the thrill of the cannon and takes much pride in him. In their indolent years, both Manning and Vowell struggle to fully communicate with their father; however, as they grow older and mature, they begin to respect and accept their father, building a stronger relationship in the end.
ReplyDeleteManning and Vowell’s stories both present their fathers as ones who are physically-driven and all around manly-men. However, Manning’s father is only able to relate to him on that physical basis through sports, arm wrestling, and their bear hugs, while Vowell is quite different. Vowell, being a girl (no stereotypical profiling intended), doesn’t have that innate physical connection with her father like Manning, and to top it all off, Vowell is a left-wing author-type while her father is a hardcore right-wing gun enthusiast, but they still manage to have a good relationship (which is probably only possible since they are father and daughter). Both stories have the climax scene where the author finally obtains a different view of their father due to something that they can -finally- relate to. Manning’s moment of realization is when he inevitably beats his dad in their ritualistic arm wrestling match, which is followed by the love-filled hug at the airport. Vowell comes to terms with her father when they are out shooting her dad’s cannon and she realizes that they are both dorks, but with different mediums.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was reading these stories, it seemed like they were pretty much the same, at least to me. Not that they weren’t good, but to me it seemed like they were formed from the same mold; there is an obvious difference between the author and his/her husky father and the two come to terms some way or another, the real question or difference is: “how?”
When speaking of any type of relationship, whether it is between two lovers or like the ones shown in Manning’s and Vowell’s essays, communication is key. Without verbally stating emotions and feelings to a significant other, a misinterpreted view of their antics may be problematic for the relationship. The short descriptive essay “Arm Wrestling With My Father” gives the reader insight to the way Manning was reared and the effect that the lack of communication between him and his father had later in life. The two had a relationship “determined by athleticism and strength,” which is understandable when taking into consideration the male tendency to show emotions rather than to talk about them. For Manning and his father, this lack of communication was fueled by the habitual competition they held against each other. From an onlooker’s point of view, the competition may seem to be a mere show of strength, but for Manning and his father, this was a way that they could show love for one another without sacrificing a manly façade. While this physical show of communication may not have been entirely positive for either father or son, the act of arm wrestling became a common link between them. Manning’s father only spoke with him about matters that concerned physicality, such as being coached in sports like lacrosse; however, he yearned for a better way him and his father could interact. Over time as Manning grew stronger and his father weaker, he was then able to defeat the life-long ambition of forcing his father’s arm to the ground. The fact that he shows remorse when he “want[ed] to let him go,” reveals that the barrier of their communication has been broken by the simple factor of time. On the other hand, Vowell’s relationship with her father was neither physical or emotional, but rather a mesh of opposing political viewpoints as well as her aversion to guns while her father obsessed over them. The two “started bickering in earnest when [she] was fourteen,” a reasonable age for arguments because of a teenager’s gravitation towards picking fights due to the hormones raging through their developing bodies. Vowell chooses this age in her life to emphasize the differences between her and her father. The reader can then percieve how a life being ignored by her father, not because he intended to due to his busy workload, affected how Vowell viewed her father. She makes her negative viewpoint of the gunsmith clear by using adjectives such as “horrifying,” and “weird.” Because of her opinion of guns, her and her father did not communicate as much as “the loneliest twin in history” and her father did. Unlike Manning and his father, Vowell never really interacted with her dad until later in life when she then takes the reins to try communicating with him. Ironically, Vowell foreshadows her father’s “shooting” by decribing his latest achievement as the “most elaborate tool of death yet.” By the end of “Shooting Dad”, the reader then realizes the meaning of the title, and both daughter and father come together for one last final shooting of her dad.
ReplyDeleteThe physical release of Vowell’s father as well as the figurative release of tension for Manning and his father indicates similar yet different ways positive communication can be hindered. Whether it be a lack of showing emotion or simply because of opposing interests, the relationship both authors had between their fathers are similar because they did not interact with the fatherly figurehead in their lives as much as they had wanted. Manning shows how physicality is not always an effective means of communicating because him and his father did not reveal their true feelings of love for each other until later in life. Although Vowell also shows appreciation for her father towards the end of his life, the communication between her and her father was virtually nonexisistent due to differing opinions on almost everything while she was growing up.
Brad Manning’s “Arm Wrestling with Dad”, provides information on how his father was never a person to show affection or try and nurture his son. Manning describes how his father never supported his musical talents. When it came to sports, his father would only go to his games and critique his every move. Although Manning tells about all the negative events about his father, he eventually shows his true feelings by feeling guilty about beating his father in their favorite pastime, arm wrestling. When Manning is getting ready to go back to college, he puts his hand out to his father and his father offers his son a hug instead. Manning shows the reader that he loves and respects his father by becoming upset while on the airplane.
ReplyDeleteSarah Vowell’s “Shooting Dad” demonstrates how a daughter and her father and she have different views on everything including politics and interests. Vowell and her father argue but her father usually leaves her alone and takes her twin sister hunting and shooting because she enjoys it. As she and her father age, she discovers the importance of her and her father to be able to agree to disagree. She eventually understands her father and learns to enjoy fire arms because it is who her father is.
Brad Manning and Sara Vowell both portray a distance from their fathers while growing up. Both also learn after growing up to accept their father. Vowell and her father argued while Manning just listened to his father. Vowell was more opinionated and Manning kept his thoughts to himself. Manning did more things with his father while Vowell stayed away from her father. In the end, both realize the meaning of family. You cannot chose your family.
Jacob- I completely agree with your statements claiming how the mold of each story is basically the same. It was not as though they were not informative, they were just a little vapid in the message they were trying to portray. The storylines were slow and not particularly exciting. It would help if they were less soporific, engaging the reader. Kajal- Though it is apparent that the communication between Manning and his father is physical as opposed to the traditional method of showing affection, and Manning being understanding of it; his understanding of it is probably not positive, for in the story he seems to be whining in a way about all of the things his father would do and show up for, as opposed to the events and things that Manning preferred him to do. He seems disappointed, but too reserved and submissive as a child to say anything to him. in their message.
ReplyDeleteNatasha: You stated that "what Manning does not understand is, his father can only advise him in places where he is somewhat of an expert on." and that he couldn't help with orchestra because he did not know anything about it. I do not agree with this statement because Manning reveals that his father would coach him in lacrosse, which he knew nothing about. Manning stated that "his movements were all wrong and sad to watch." Although he did not know about orchestra, he also did not know about lacrosse.
ReplyDeleteAna: I agree completely with your statement that "Without verbally stating emotions and feelings to a significant other, a misinterpreted view of their antics may be problematic for the relationship." I also like your insight that the reason the relationship between father and child is not good is because they do not interact with their father as much as they would like.
Jacob: You asserted that these two stories were "pretty much the same." I agree with your statement. They both followed the same story line. For me, it is the "how" that makes me like "Arm Wresting with My Father" more than "Shooting With Dad."
Jacob - I like that way that you phrased these two stories as the same “mold” and I agree with that. The core of Manning’s and Vowell’s description is their relationships with their fathers and how they communicated with each other. There were different types of communication, like Manning’s physical relationship and Vowell’s conflicting opinions, but ultimately this communication changes and father and daughter/son become more understanding of each other. Each story tells how their relationships change.
ReplyDeleteNatasha – You said that Manning’s father could only coach Manning in things that he is an expert on. However, Manning says in his description that his father did not know much about lacrosse either. His father advised Manning in lacrosse anyways because he wanted to somehow let his feelings of affection reach his son.
Grace,
ReplyDeleteI never thought about the connections between child/father as being blocked by something. I think that is a really smart way of thinking. Manning’s communication was blocked by losing at arm wrestling, but for some reason, it has to be more than just losing. Maybe, it had to do with Manning’s pride, or maybe it was that his father just didn’t realize that they had a lack of communication. Same thing with Vowell, it was more than just their differing opinion of guns. I feel like they had differing opinions on a lot of subjects, especially politics, and especially guns.
Kajal,
I agree that both children realized the problem with the communication after they had grown up. It’s neat that something like maturity can open your eyes to see or understand something that you might not have earlier. It’s strange that when the kids grow up, they are the first to recognize the miscommunication. But, even though the parents are already grown up, they don’t recognize the miscommunication that they have/had with their child.
Jacob,
I like how you pointed out that because Vowell is a girl, she and her father might not have had such a great connection, because that’s so true. I think guys typically have a stronger relationship with their fathers because they can relate easier and the guy normally learns a lot from his dad more than from his mom. I also like how you described the girl’s personality versus her father’s. the “left-wing author-type” versus the “hardcore right-wing gun enthusiast.” I also agree about what you meant when you said that they probably only have some sort of relationship because they are father and daughter, because in reality, if they were not related, they probably would not get along at all.
Jacob: I liked how you used the gender difference to show the connection barrier between the two kids and their father. I also agree with Dana's response to your comment about how she liked "Arm Wrestling with My Father" more that "Shooting with Dad." I agree that the "how" made me enjoy the story and made a more sincere impact on the story.
ReplyDeleteAna: You, also, used the differentiation of sexes to portray how the communication was barred. I also liked how you compared the ending physically versus figuratively. I also liked how you used their different types of interactions to compare the two stories.
Lexi: I really liked how you compared the two kids personalities and actions with their fathers to help analyze their different relationships. It was something I had not noticed, but now knowing this, it helps to show major differences in the stories.
Caroline- I like how you mention that "Manning hints in his essay that he wanted his father to communicate with him more lovingly through his childhood." He knows that his father loves him and does the best he can, yet still feels a mild resentment for his father not being able to express himself in regards to other interests.
ReplyDeleteDylan- I like how you contrasted how the interests of each father are portrayed. Manning's father does not have much of a background to explain exactly why he can only have a physical relationship. However, Vowell's father has an extensive background on his love for guns and his cultural connection with them.
Austin- Though I'm sure each child can be frustrated with their respective fathers, I do not think that they are angry with them. Manning knows his dad has trouble communicating, but is aware that he will do as much as he can with their common interests. Lowell knows that her dad and her do not have similar hobbies and interests, but he still allows here to speak her mind and express herself.
Catherine- I thought when you said "Manning and Vowell suggest that the relationship they each have with their father is sort of their ‘thing’: something that is customary to them, although conflicting" was very insightful. Though the children's relationships with their dads are not conventional, they work for them. Sometimes stress is involved, but as they matured they learned to see different perspectives, and the love their dads have for each of them.
Natasha- You bring up a good point when you say that while Vowell originally sees her father’s gun obsession as both moronic and pointless, she eventually sees it for what it truly is, her father’s attempts to reconnect with his ancestors. After she discovers the true meaning of his actions, she begins to try and join in on the activities, and that is what leads to their cannon outing. However, I slightly disagree with you when you say that Manning does not understand that his father cannot teach him in areas that he does not fully comprehend. I believe that Manning does see that his father cannot help him with things like orchestra and that is why he accepts the way that his father shows him affection through physical movements and sports coaching.
ReplyDeleteAvery- In response to your comment on my post, I meant that Manning was angry at his father after he lost the arm wrestling contest when he was younger. Manning says that “Too bitter to smile, I would not answer or look at him, but I would just roll over on my back and frown at the ceiling. I never thought it was funny at all.” I did not mean that Manning was angry at his father for the way that he showed his love, but that he was simply frustrated that he could not best his father in the arm wrestling contest.
Michael- While I agree that Vowell did have trouble communicating with her father because of the sheer number of disagreements that they had, I am not so sure that Manning had trouble communicating with his father. He and his father had an understood system of communicating through physical methods such as hugging and arm wrestling. It is through these gestures that they can communicate their feelings, and so both are able to successfully communicate their feelings to the other person. I do believe that Manning sometimes wishes his father would just tell him his true feelings, but I think that he has accepted his father’s methods of communication and is content with those methods.
Avery, I like how you focus on how each author explains how they connect with his or her father only after maturing. Even though Vowell and her father had completely different interests, you accurately state that they are both “obsessive loners” in the activities that they confide in. On the other hand, you explain that Manning and his father both communicate their “feelings through physical competition” because he cannot “express any emotion past what he knows and what interests him.” I agree completely with both statements you made about each author because it shows that both are different to their corresponding father, but share common interests or emotions as they mature.
ReplyDeleteTatum, you state that in each relationship between father and child, one had to make a change in order to effectively communicate with the other. I agree when you explain how Manning’s father had “to change his heart and show emotion for his son” in order to understand how to communicate with his son. Instead of having her father change her love for guns, Vowell was the one who made the change in order to appreciate her father’s hobby. You essentially conclude that by participating in each other’s lives, communication can be made possible.
Taylor, I really appreciate how you included that it may have been Manning’s fault for not voicing his opinion verbally when his father did not communicate with him in the ways that he wanted to. Although “this may have been the way his father had raised him,” he still had the opportunity to tell his father exactly what bothered him during his childhood. You also state that Vowell’s essay “depicts the attempt to understand rather than to alter the views,” which is something that I did not think about when first reading the two essays.
Taylor: I realized after reading your post that his son never expressed a need for change. It may really be more of the sons fault for not mentioning the need for change. Since he felt he needed the change, he only expressed it to himself, never to his father.
ReplyDeleteJacob: I never thought about Manning and his father being of the same gender versus Vowell and her father. It definitely plays a role in how they interpret what the other says.
Jacob- I agreed with your post. I like how you said they are a mold of each other and pretty much the same story. I also agreed when you brought in gender to each story because it is true that Manning would find it easier to connect on a physical level, while Vowell being a daughter would find it harder to appreciate guns and hinting. You also said they probably ended up getting along because she is his daughter which is true because in my opinion Vowell wouldn't try to get along with her father if they did not have that connection.
ReplyDeleteDylan- I don't agree with you where you state that the father tried to teach them a lesson but i agree with the rest of your closing statement and i really like how you concluded your post. I agree that they both grew up and realized that love can be expressed in different ways, it doesn't have to be emotional and that it shouldn't affect what you believe in or what you take pride in. For Manning, he realized that his dad expressed his love physically, with an arm wrestle or tip on how to play better and he realized that love when he finally got his emotional hug. I also like how you found irony in Vowell's relationship.
Jacob: I like that you noted the difference in gender between the two relationships. I didn't think about this factor before and it does make a lot of sense. I think that father-daughter relationships tend to be more emotional and open, which is probably why Vowell felt it best to take the initiative in becoming a better daughter, while Manning kept his feelings inside until his father made the first move and hugged him.
ReplyDeleteTaylor: I liked how you said that Vowell "is more expressive in her opposition of her father's views, opinions, and wants than Manning is." I think that this factor of addressing the issues upfront contributed to the positive change in Vowell's relationship with her father and the sense of conclusion at the end, whereas the conclusion of Manning's essay was unsure of what was to come and their conflict remained unspoken, since it was only assumed to be communicated through a hug.
Wow! The debating spirit is alive and well! I admire that you--4th period sages--take very seriously the commentary of your peers and challenge and validate each other's responses! Discussion forums Thursday and Friday should prove to be some of the best we've encountered this year!
ReplyDeleteThanks for your candid and confident responses -- your level of trust in 4th period reflects a great deal about your maturity as AP Lang students. LWeaver
Grace - I like how you state that both children had to overcome "obstructions" and how they finally at the end accept their fathers' differences.
ReplyDeleteTatum - I like how you tell us that Manning uses emotion and intellect to solve the problem, while his father uses physical attributes and how Vowell likes music and writing while her father likes guns and politics. It's also important how you state that they learn to like something about their fathers' hobby in order to effectively communicate like they want to.
Austin - I don't agree on how you said that Vowell is angry at her father through their differing opinions. Yes, they may of had the total opposite opinions, but Vowell didn't hold a grudge against her dad for it. That's in my opinion. I don't see hatred towards her father for him liking the "horrifying" guns. She learned to live with the differences, and later matured when she found out "oh. my. god. My dad and I are the same person."
Ana - Excellent point on how you tell us that no matter what relationship, communication is key. I agree totally, because without commmunication, your relationship can't strengthen, grow, etc,. I also like how you say that the readers come to an understanding of the title "Shooting Dad" by the end of the story when they find out that her father wants to be shot out of a cannon into the valley.
Catherine: I like how you came to the conclusion that Manning and Vowell are in a relationship where "they have developed a sort of fear and feel they cannot compete." I agree with this statement and believe that this aspect is a major reason for the struggle between father and child. I also like that you referred to Manning and his father as both learning something. I feel that when the two are learning together, a more intimate relationship will result.
ReplyDeleteDylan: I like how you contrasted the two stories by finding that in Manning's story,emotion of love between parent and child is the issue while "Shooting Dad" presents a conflict of beliefs and opinions. I never really thought of the differences in that context, but now clearly see how the center of the struggle of communication are based on these aspects. I also like how you pointed out that in both of the stories, the child just simply does not understand his/her father.
Tatum, although I like your comment about how both Vowell and Manning has to learn to like similar hobbies as their fathers to effectively communicate, I don't quite agree that Manning's father acts his way simply because that's all he knows. Manning's father knew how to communicate with love and affection through physical actions. Even though Manning wanted more emotional attention, the father's love for Manning has always been evident.
ReplyDeleteDylan, I really liked your last comment about how Vowell and Manning didn't understand what or why their fathers did what they did until much older. By doing so, they have taught their child that love is expressed in different ways.
Austin -> I’m going to have to disagree with you when you say that Manning is angry with his father. I believe Avery said this too (maybe we can finally agree on something!) but I think their relationship is based on that competition, like you said, but not anger. Although Manning may be perturbed that his father is constantly beating him, I think he sees it as not only a challenge, but as one of the few links of communication that he has with his father, therefore he is grateful for it. On the other hand, I will agree with you when you say that Vowell feels more resentment towards her father and is maybe even angry.
ReplyDeleteMichael -> I like how you say that the stories show the “evolving relationships” and that their resentment “transforms into acceptance.” I really like the connotation behind those words because it makes it sound like it took a long time for that acceptance to happen, which it did.
Kajal -> I like how you point out that Vowell, “does not have a problem in expressing herself physically or emotionally,” it’s just that they don’t have anything in common. I think this is one of the main deviants of the two stories and what makes each unique, because in Manning’s, the two at least had a few things in common: the arm wrestling, lacrosse, and whatever other manly activities the two could have indulged in together. Who knows, maybe they went rock climbing. Or spear fishing. Or catfish noodling… To me, that is the epitome of manliness, so that would be pretty intense, but I digress… In Vowell’s, the closest her and her father ever came was in shooting that old cannon. However, it seems like there is a lot missing from these stories and it would be interesting to gain the perspective from the fathers and see how they felt.
Jacob- I also like the way that you compared the genders. As Catherine said, it really does make a difference to me now as well. I also like the fact that you made the connection that the father and daughter were both dorks. I agree that these pieces are quite similar. While reading, all I could focus on was how similar they were.
ReplyDeleteAustin- I like that you put that Manning and his father have more common ground than Vowell and her father. I noticed that it took Manning time to see his father act differently towards him to realize the positive characteristics of his father, while Vowell stepped up and made an attempt to mend the broken relationship.
Tatum, I like and agree with your statement that “the father’s way of communication is not right for everyone, but the father continues his way because that is all he knows”. However, I disagree with your claim that Manning’s father believes that all problems can be solved physically; rather, I think that Manning’s father is just unable or unwilling to express himself emotionally.
ReplyDeleteI thought that your summary of the differences between Manning’s relationship with his father and Vowell’s was very accurate Rachel. I came to the same conclusion that Manning had a closer relationship with his father but didn’t directly communicate, and that Vowell communicated openly but had too many conflicting opinions. However, I disagree that Manning’s and Vowell’s gender had any role in their relationships with their fathers.
Original Post: Arm Wrestling and Shooting Dad both illustrate a struggle between a child and their dad. In Arm Wrestling the son is frustrated because his dad always is superior to him and pointing out how the son could do better. In the end the son realizes his father acts as such because this is the only way he knows to express love and craves this behavior. Shooting Dad has an opposite conflict, of the girl wanting to differ from her father because she believes everything he does is incorrect. She vehemently sticks to her "guns" and counters everything he believes in. Eventually the girl learns to accept her father's ways as differing from hers, yet still correct, and form an appreciation for his specialties in life.
ReplyDeletePeer Commentary: Jacob, to answer your question of "how", I believe as both authors matured and became more worldly they abandoned their child-like stubborness and realized although they may disagree or express themselves differently than another person it doesn't mean that they shouldnt accept the person or try to learn from them!
Dylan, I liked how you distinguished between the two stories as one was based on opinions and beliefs and one on love. I think this is a very insightful and good way to distinguish between the two.
After our class discussion about description essays, I've come to the conclusion that to write a strong description essay one must not just include flowery adjectives but the essay must have a purpose that is clearly stated. A key factor in writing a descriptive essay is to make sure you have a thesis that states the author's dominant impression clearly. You have to be careful not to add in excessive details, the author needs to make sure it is all relevant and necessary details.
ReplyDeleteFrom these essays and class discussions, I have come to an understanding that descriptions are not just bare details about some object; descriptions are a piece of writing that uses details in order to portray a purpose. Descriptions do not just blatantly identify purpose of the story; the reader is able to deduce it. Just like in "Shooting Dad," Vowell does not begin her story by saying how different she and her dad are, but she says it through the details of her house, their rooms, and their opinions. From these details, we are able to come to the conclusion that the author was describing her relationship with her father.
ReplyDeleteGrace,
ReplyDeleteYour post is very insightful. Take heed fellow muses. Use Grace's insight as you consider how to approach description. Stylistically, Vowell write in order us how their environments, their hobbies, and their beliefs are who they are and how those differences seem, at first glace, what separates them. Perhaps your siblings is one place to look--nature versus nuture anyone?
Mrs. Field
Please excuse my typos. I was using my phone and my fingers are not accurate.
ReplyDeleteKField
Description, unlike narration, does not try to deliver a moral or axiom to the reader, but rather describes or portrays an object or event that is important to the author. However, physical descriptions alone do not make a piece worth reading. Successful authors must also include how that object or event makes them feel, as well as how it has impacted their lives and the lives of those around them. Therefore, emotional descriptions are just as important to descriptive writings as physical descriptions. For example, Manning uses the arm wrestling anecdote to describe not only how his relationship with his father makes him feel, but also how it has impacted and shaped his life. His feelings towards his relationship with his father are the main focus in his writing, and that is what allows his story to be so successful.
ReplyDeleteThrough the pieces of literature I have read, and the discusssions that we have had in class, I have come to an understanding about what a description piece actually represents. Rather than just a load of details and descriptions, a description writing proves a point or purpose which is illustrated through a person, object, or event. Like in Manning's story "Arm Wrestling with My Father," the story did not just come out and say, "My dad and I had problems communicating, but when I got older, I matured and understood his feelings." Rather, Manning takes the reader on a journey through his personal life and experiences illustrating the relationship he had with his father.
ReplyDeleteDescriptive writing is based on vivid details that present an object, event, or person in a specific light. The author uses descriptions, which are often heavily based on one specific sense, to convey to the audience a specific impression about an object, event, or person. In descriptive writing, the author does not directly say the impression that he or she is trying to convey, but instead allows the reader to, through the details of the essay, reach the same conclusion. This self-discovery creates a much stronger image in the reader’s mind than if the purpose was directly stated because the readers arrived at the conclusion themselves, forming a unique connection between the thing being described and the impression being conveyed.
ReplyDeleteDescriptive writing helps the reader produce an image of the scene being told easier than narration. This is what I have learned through the past week breaking down of description. And also like Austin said, it doesn't put forth the moral or axiom, and what Michael said, lets the reader find out what the dominant impression is at the conclusion of the story. I also learned that I can not get description and narration mixed up. Description is describing an event and using detail to life the spirits of the story, and narration is telling the story and incorporate morals and life lessons within the story.
ReplyDeleteThrough our class discussion of descriptive essays, along with the examples we read, i have quite simply come to the conclusion that a descriptive essay is much, much more than multiple, useless adjectives. I have come to appreciate description as a round about way of getting to the truth rather than a bunch of unnecessary fluff blocking the reader from understanding the purpose. By utilizing a descriptive technique authors allow the reader to vividly experience the same occurrence as they did, but make their own judgments as to what the author was attempting to convey within the description.
ReplyDeleteFrom our class discussions and the short stories we have read this week, i have come to the conclusion that descriptive writing is not just vivid details but descriptive writing must also have a strong purpose or truth, and a type of conflict. By using descriptive writing authors show the reader the experience they were going through when writing their essay. Descriptive writing introduces the conflict in the beginning of the story and then builds on it, throughout the novel with descriptive, vivid details. Those components together successfully reach the purpose and truth behind the story. For example, Vowell states in the beginning of the essay that she doesn't get along with her dad and then uses the rest of the essay to demonstrate how her father's relationship evolved from complete disagreement to a mutual understanding and compromise.
ReplyDeleteThrough reading the short stories and discussing with the class, I have found that the descriptive mode of writing not only stimulates the reader's senses and imagination, but the descriptions show the story for the reader. Rather than just telling the reader what is happening and the emotions behind the story, the reader can decipher for themselves their idea of what it means. The thorough descriptions in the stories bring out individual emotions and opinions so that the reader can interpret for themselves the true meaning of the passage.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have learned about the description mode of writing is that, differing from narratives, the change is not apparent or clearly spoken of. In the description stories that we have read, I have seen that you can only notice this change by paying attention to the details and the emotions that are created through descriptive words.
ReplyDeleteThough each story we read had a different purpose, the style in which they were written provided the descriptive accuracy needed to convey their message effectively to the reader. The language was not over flowery, but consisted of just enough visual and emotional description needed to have the reader experience their exact emotions or visions.
ReplyDeleteBy reading the short stories and engaging in our class discussions, I've learned that the authors do not just bluntly tell the reader what is happening. Instead, the authors conveys their message through accurate and vivid description. They basically creates an image for us from their details of the event taking place, making us determine the reason why they would include such information.
ReplyDeleteFrom reading a few of the posts, it seems like the general consensus is that descriptive language does not rely heavily on flowery language. I, however, respectfully disagree. From reading the stories in the Bedford Reader and other books in general, I believe that flowery adjectives and language is the basis of descriptive writing, but how the author chooses to implement them is key. Like salt, with a dash here and there, those flowery adjectives can make a story delectable, but if you dump too much in there it’s just plain nasty and can even lead to heart failure. Nevertheless, the author’s style seems to be the criteria on how those descriptions are used, and they usually describe one key aspect of a bigger picture. Say, for instance, Vowell wants to describe her father; she will focus on one key aspect or anecdote about him and modify her language accordingly so that it makes it seem as though you knew him personally. But without flowery language that is both visually stimulating and emotional, there wouldn’t be any “Descriptive Writings” because there wouldn’t be any descriptions.
ReplyDeleteFrom reading the pieces of literature and having class discussions I have learned to understand how these essays are written. I have learned that the authors include emotional descriptions that allows the readers to connect to them. They are not overly descriptive but just enough to give them an edge. Each description that is provided for the reader allows the author and reader to connect on an emotional level.
ReplyDeleteFrom our readings to our discussion in class about each of the essay, I have discovered that the description mode is not just about detail. If it was just about vivid diction, it would be a poem. The descriptive mode depicts how something thoroughly described can have an emotional impact on a person. The description mode can take an object, person, or emotion and connect it with the reader. It can represent a symbol for emotion or nostalgia. The description mode gives meaning to something. Like in Manning's story, his father's arm is the represenation of his role as his dad over the years.
ReplyDeleteThrough our class discussions and our readings, I have learned what "Descriptive Writing" is. It is not just meaningless adjective after adjective. Rather, it is a story with deeper meaning conveyed through these adjectives. It allows the reader to feel emotion though the story and understand how you feel about a certain object, person, event, or place.
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